Recently I posted a video that contained something that Victoria Osteen had stated. I believe quite emphatically that she could have made her statement more clearly and to the point so as to be understood better, but even so, what she said resonated and rung true to me. I have been privilege to read a few things by Joel Osteen that have helped me out of a cycle of stinky thinking. As result, I have morphed from being a hater, to someone who respects Joel. However, another important factor in my choice to stand up for Joel and Victoria has to do with the understanding I now have concerning the idea of slander and gossip.
It is one thing to disagree with someone based upon an understanding that we carry. It is proper to express perceived differences to come to an understanding, even going as far as exchanging ideas to help cause illumination to happen for an individual. Constructive conversations and even intense disagreements are perfectly fine and acceptable. Where the line gets crossed is when the he said she said stuff starts to come out. This is also known as gossip, which is simply second hand information that doesn’t come from any of the parties being talked about. Another line that gets crossed often which in my estimation is more deadly than gossip is slander. People think that it is okay to talk negatively about a person they do not know. At times super-imposing ideas based upon biases that they carry, or gossip that they have heard. None of it can really be verified by the accused parties since it is typically carried out behind the backs of those who are being slandered.
Both gossip and slander are things that are weapons of mass destruction that at times can cause irreparable damage to those that it is used against. Gossip and slander, are not like nuclear weapons that can totally incinerate you within a matter of moments. They are like super toxic poisons that corrode from the inside out. Just the smallest bit of these poisons can cause more damage that one could anticipate. These poisons are deadly because they are spread quite easily and are highly contagious. The American culture is a like a petri dish that is primed for the incubation of said poisons. Very few people are fully immune to the effects of slander and gossip or becoming carriers who infect others with its deadly contamination. Yet, the most harm that comes from gossip and slander actually occurs in the carriers and spreaders of the poison, not the people who are the target of the slander or gossip. It is ironic, gossip and slander, much like un-forgiveness and bitterness, affect the host more than it will affect the target of the poison.
People do not understand that gossip and slander erode who we are as people at the core. We start manifesting things we never thought possible, and most of the time it goes under the radar and un-diagnosed for years at a time. By the time these things become apparent, habits, thought processes, biases, and prejudices have begun to solidify, making it quite difficult to uproot or administer a cure. The sad part about the whole situation is that it causes people to become delusional, suspicious, zealous, combative, and have problems understanding. People become passionate defenders of what they perceive as truth, to the point that their eye sight to see a different perspective becomes severely hindered. People who have opposing viewpoints are no longer seen as family, friends, or brothers in arms. They become antagonist, enemies, and people to be subdued (or brought into the truth). The us versus them mentality becomes clear to see to those on the outside, but to those who are in the thick of things they often times to do not realize that this approach is the root cause of violent conflict (be it spiritual or physical…more on this in a future blog).
I want to offer the response I gave in response to some who were slandering Victoria Osteen’s comments.
This is the comment that prompted my response:
So defiling the gospel is okay? When you twist scripture (like Satan did), its cool? That's what I got out of that one. What you said was true about the men God elected and called, but they repented of what they did. So Joel repents after ever service of how far he preaches from the truth? Theological understanding in America is so pathetic....
So defiling the gospel is okay? When you twist scripture (like Satan did), its cool? That's what I got out of that one. What you said was true about the men God elected and called, but they repented of what they did. So Joel repents after ever service of how far he preaches from the truth? Theological understanding in America is so pathetic....
I will only
address one thing that has been said here. People are so freaking enamored with
false teachers and false doctrine and all the other false things, that most of
the time when truth hits them in the face they don't know how to recognize it
simply because they have been paying attention to the fakes for so long.
That much
being said, I personally think that it would simply be better to let fakes run
their mouths and do all the smoke and mirrors stuff they do, than to spend all
our energy worrying about who is fake and who is not. Ultimately Paul summed up
the gospel rather easily. It is not in mere words but in the demonstration of
power. It bears fruit (love, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, joy,
faithfulness, gentleness and self-control). It is summed up in Love. Jesus said
something very interesting, "They will know that you are my disciples by
your LOVE." Not by how well you understand doctrine, having perfect
theology, saying the right things, quoting the right scriptures, the way your
worship music sounds, how much you fast, how loud pray...He said simply by your
love...Funny, these are all things I HAVE heard Joel talk about and preach MANY
times.
People are
so wrapped up on this whole "prosperity Gospel" thing that they have
forgotten that it’s because of the Gospel that we can enjoy REAL prosperity. I
mean I am pretty sure the same guy that I mentioned...David penned,
"Delight yourself in the Lord, and he will give you the desires of your
heart." That is something that we eventually did see in the life of David.
David desired for a house of worship to the Lord be built...guess what...IT WAS
BUILT by his son Solomon. Jesus said, "Ask anything in my name and it will
be given to you..." He also said, "Ask and it will be given to you,
seek and you will find, knock and the door will be open to you..." The
funny thing is...most of us try to rationalize what Jesus said, but He also
made a very important statement that many of us forget..."let the little
children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of Heaven belongs
to such as these." You have talked about theology, but I am pretty sure
Jesus meant what he said. Maybe just maybe this is so far of our Western
Civilized grid, because Jesus made it THAT EASY. He made it SO EASY it’s HARD.
See, I find
it even more intriguing that within the pages of the bible, you find that our
main characters received such grace from God even in the midst of their short
comings and hang ups. But if they had lived today...most would hear the same
chanting that Jesus heard, "Crucify Him, Crucify Him." We play so
civilized but we are just as blood thirsty as the crowd that wanted to kill
Jesus. The only difference being we do so subtly. We would rather assassinate a
person’s character and disqualify them from "ministry" than to see
them "lead someone astray", when in fact I can only imagine the kind
of fall out that happened when David took that census and caused countless
people to lose their lives. I wonder if the people wanted to have him
dethroned...but you see in scripture he kept his position. Yet, if Joel Osteen
doesn't preach enough about sin, we want him OUT. He is a FALSE TEACHER a FALSE
PROPHET. Give me a break. This is pitiful guy, just pitiful.
I mean
really, Jesus had a great idea that I think is brilliant. Ever read the parable
of the wheat and the tares. That sums up my feeling of how to deal with those
who are "wolves in sheep's clothing" and those who are "called
of God". Let them grow together. After a given time it will be seen what
they are. Once fully matured then deal with them as needed. Notice, the
servants in said parable were given specific instructions NOT to deal with the
tares until the proper time. Who among us know when that perfect timing is? Ya,
I didn't think so. We do more damage fighting this battle trying to pluck
things out of the soil than we do by letting things grow to seen for what they
truly are. It is rather SHORT sided and immature honestly.
Yes, I am
saying exactly what you think I am saying. Let those who preach a false gospel
continue to preach. Given a proper amount of time it will reveal itself for
what it is. Meanwhile, that does put more responsibility on the average person
to take the time to become familiar with God rather than use the cookie cutter
model of Christianity...or as I refer to it..."Churchianity". It will
NEVER fall on to a leader to make you more mature in your walk with Christ.
That is the Holy Spirit's job. Every teacher of the Gospel or Pseudo teacher of
the Gospel will have to give an account for what they have spoken and taught.
God will deal with them how he needs to deal with them. However, it really just
isn't beneficial to sit her and hurl slanderous arrows at a person just because
we do not get where they are coming from, or they are violating our
understanding of scripture. Honestly, that is just arrogant on many accounts.
Do I think
Joel and his wife Victoria are perfect? No.
Do I think
that they have a lot to learn about delivering things? You bet.
Am I willing
to call them false teachers or false prophets? No, not at all.
Am I willing
to be mature enough to eat the meat and spit out the bones? Yep, but that is
something I do with a lot of "bible" teachers. Yes, this includes but
is not limited to...MacArthur, Driscoll, Bell, Piper, Wright, Edwards, Nee,
Murray, Prince, Meyer, White, Hinn, Wommack, Johnson, Vallotton, Silk,
Cooke...just to name a few.
All of these
men and women, have blessed me tremendously, but have also caused a bit of
frustration. Are they false teachers? NO. Are they false prophets? NO. They all
have perspectives that differ from each other, yet line up with scripture.
Imagine that. We have some who are Trinitarian in there theology, and some who
are not. We have some who are Calvinists and others who are not. Charismatic,
Presbyterian, Lutheran, Baptist, Non-Denominational...I mean who freaking cares
which label they are. Do they love Jesus? Are they walking with him? Are they
on a journey? Okay then let us move right along because they are no different
than you or I.
I have made
major errors, yet none of those who know me would ever dream of calling me a
false teacher or prophet. Everyone who has posted on this thread has done the
same things. There are no crazy accusations being hurled at you guys for what
you have taught or believed at one point...so why the heck are we sitting in the
seat of judgment over them when we know it would be HYPOCRITICAL to do, since
we have made errors in speaking, thinking, and critiquing? We have all had to
learn and grow given time and mistakes.
Theological
understanding in America isn't pathetic, however, people would rather their
theology over relationship with the one who has perfect theology and is
committed to helping people journey into said theology. People don't want to
get messy, to make mistakes; to have a functional theology that actually WORKS
outside of their little bubbles. The study of God will always pale in
comparison to actually knowing and walking WITH HIM. Study is not synonymous
with knowing. Funny thing is you can study someone without knowing them, but
you cannot know this without continually being with them and studying them.
Knowing about someone is definitely different than actually knowing said
person. That is where Western Christianity misses the mark. Not all of Western
Christianity, I wouldn't want to overgeneralize and marginalize the people who
actually spend their time KNOWING God rather than knowing about God.
In my
opinion, no matter how you slice this, whether you dislike Joel and Victoria,
it does no one any good to sit here and complain about how horrible they are.
What is it going to change? It is a bad idea to grumble and complain about someone
you disagree with that God has put his stamp of approval on. Why not simply ask
God for understanding in places that rub you the wrong way? Just saying, he
doesn't carry our biases. So my vote is to simply wait until God makes a
distinctive judgment on this issue whether wheat or tare.
Again, the topic of slander and gossip are things that I take with utmost seriousness. I have seen too many people hurt from deciding to slander and gossip about others, as well as the fall out of broken relationships of those who have been slandered and gossiped against. It isn’t a pretty sight. There are areas that we need to get in check otherwise the church will continue to look foolish and like a non-option to the world around it. It is not a great idea to kill those you call your own or carry the same label “Christian” as you. In this way, there is still not much of a distinction between those who say they follow Jesus and those who don’t. We have to get to the stuff that is underneath the hood rather than looking to fix cosmetic issues. There are deeper issues to be dealt with if Christians as a whole in North America want to be taken seriously by those in our own neighborhoods as well as across the world. It is kind of depressing to hear that in various places in the world Christians are praying not to turn out like American Christians.
Just some food for thought.
